(h) Gloss in T. Bab Pesachim, fol. the glory which I had with thee before the world was; the same phrase with or , used by the Jews (h). 7 Now they know that everything I have is a gift from you, 8 for I have passed on to them the message you gave me. The nature of the glory spoken of is interpreted both by John 17:5 and by John 17:24. The Gospel of John weds theology to poetry. In this case, the word with means "beside" or "alongside of." 20 apud Galatin. The verse can clearly be interpreted in a way that is honest and biblically sound, and shows that Christ was a man, but was in the foreknowledge of God as God’s plan for the salvation of mankind. John 17:1-5 NIV - Jesus Prays to Be Glorified - After - Bible Gateway. This helps us to arrive at the first meaning here: "This is the eternal life—that they might know thee," etc.—this is the way to it. God looks to him that is humble and of a contrite spirit. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John W. Ritenbaugh The Nature of God: Elohim This is not to be understood of the glory of the human nature of Christ, abstractly considered; for that is no person of itself, but what is taken up into personal union with the Son of God; and therefore cannot be intended by this personal character I; nor did it exist from eternity; it was indeed written in God's book of predestination, even all its members, when as yet there were none of them in actual being; it was set up in God's thoughts and counsel, as the pattern and exemplar of human nature; it had a federal union with the Son of God, or a covenant subsistence with him; and in the Old Testament Christ was often spoken of as man, because of his frequent appearances in an human form, and because of the certainty of his incarnation; but he did not really and actually exist as man, until he took flesh of the virgin; for Christ, as man, is the seed of the woman, the son of David, Abraham, and Adam; he is called the last and second Adam, and was not as man before the first: the Old Testament speaks of his incarnation as future, nor is it possible that a creature can exist before time; for as soon as a creature exists, time begins, which is nothing else than the measure of a creature's duration; nor was the human nature of Christ with the Father from eternity; nor had it a glory before the world began, neither in whole, nor in part: nor is the glory of the divine nature abstractly considered here meant; this glory indeed Christ had from everlasting; he had it with his Father, in common with him, being in union to him; and it is true that it was in some measure veiled and covered in his state of humiliation; for though there were some breakings forth of it in that state, these were seen but by a few; wherefore he is thought by some, to pray here for the manifestation of this glory; but this glory was essential to him, was his natural right, and not to be prayed for, and which he then had as much as ever, and of which there could be no suspension: but this designs the glory of him as Godman, and Mediator; he was not only predestinated to be a Mediator, but was really set up as such from everlasting, and had a mediatorial fulness of grace put into his hands, and had the honour and glory of that office given unto him by the other two persons; and now that he might appear to be what he was, to be made, that is, made manifest that he was both Lord and Christ, he here prays; which was to be done, upon his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God, by the pouring down of the Holy Ghost. We'll send you an email with steps on how to reset your password. de Arcan. The lowest condition on earth is frequently connected with the highest honors of heaven. Again, in John 12:50 we read, "His commandment is—life everlasting" that is, the outward means of it. The references to "thy name" in John 17:6 and John 17:26 emphasize the importance of the name of God in Christianity, which in Christian teachings (e.g. He laid aside for a time the external aspect of honor, and consented to become despised, and to assume the form of a servant. In fellowship with Thyself. “And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, …” (John 17:5). John 17:5, ESV: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self Not with his perfections, these he had, they dwelt bodily in him; or with his nature, in which he was one with him; but as Mediator, with his glorious presence in heaven, by setting him at his right hand, and crowning him with glory and honour. 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy a Son, that thy Son also may b glorify thee:. Ask Pastor John. John 17:5(NASB) There can be no explanation of John 17:1-5 of this chapter, which denies that our Lord Jesus Christ claimed for Himself that He was divine, and co-eternal with the Father. See John 1:1-2; John 6:62; John 3:13; John 16:28. The perfect tense is used, because the gift had already been determined. With the glory which I had with thee before the world was.—This clause admits of but one meaning—viz., that Jesus claimed for Himself the possession of the divine glory in His pre-existent state before the world was; and that He claimed this in personality distinct from, but in essence one with God. So with Thee (παρὰ σοί). The precise character of the glorification He looks for is here presented. They were always yours. 54. You gave them to me, and they have kept your word. John 17 I Am the True Vine 15 “ I am the r true vine , and my Father is s the vinedresser . John 17:5. It could not be completely and actually bestowed until the point indicated in John 17:24 was reached. The occasion that demanded the prayer c. All rights reserved. Questions and answers with John Piper. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you, a 2 * just as you gave him authority over all people, b so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. The first thing Christ does in this prayer is establish that He was with the Father. John 17:5. καὶ νῦν δόξασον … σοί. The same thought is expressed two more times during Jesus’ last night with his faithful apostles. He says “… my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of … Look at the Book. CHAPTER 17. glorify thou me—The "I Thee" and "Thou Me" are so placed in the original, each beside its fellow, as to show that A PERFECT RECIPROCITY OF SERVICES of the Son to the Father first, and then of the Father to the Son in return, is what our Lord means here to express. Q & A: What does John 17:5 mean? What Does John 17:5 Mean? “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” The glory which he had then was that which was proper to the Son of God, represented by the expression "being in the bosom of the Father" John 1:18, denoting intimacy, friendship, united felicity. Article Images Copyright © 2020 Getty Images unless otherwise indicated. Man looks on the outward appearance. Salem Media Group. John 17:5 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓] John 17:5, NIV: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. The Jews have a notion that God will give to the King Messiah, (hlem lv dwbkh Nm) , "of the supreme glory" F7: the glory Christ prays for is, as he says. The Trinitarian interpretation is inconsistent with these statements. With the glory which I had with thee before the world was. It is παρὰ σεαυτῷ, and it is a restoration to the glory He had enjoyed πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. Jeremiah 17:5 What Does Jeremiah 17:5 Mean? The Trinitarian interpretation is entirely inconsistent with all these statements. John 17:1-5 - NIV: After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. This is not to be understood of the glory of the human nature of Christ, abstractly considered; for that is no person of itself, but what is taken up into personal union with the Son of God; and therefore cannot be intended by this personal character I; nor did it exist from eternity; it was indeed written in God's book of predestination, even all its members, when as yet there were none of them in actual being; it was set up in God's thoughts and counsel, as the pattern and exemplar of human nature; it had a federal union with the Son of God, or a covenant subsistence with him; and in the Old Testament Christ was often spoken of as man, because of his frequent appearances in an human form, and because of the certainty of his incarnation; but he did not really and actually exist as man, until he took flesh of the virgin; for Christ, as man, is the seed of the woman, the son of David, Abraham, and Adam; he is called the last and second Adam, and was not as man before the first: the Old Testament speaks of his incarnation as future, nor is it possible that a creature can exist before time; for as soon as a creature exists, time begins, which is nothing else than the measure of a creature's duration; nor was the human nature of Christ with the Father from eternity; nor had it a glory before the world began, neither in whole, nor in part: nor is the glory of the divine nature abstractly considered here meant; this glory indeed Christ had from everlasting; he had it with his Father, in common with him, being in union to him; and it is true that it was in some measure veiled and covered in his state of humiliation; for though there were some breakings forth of it in that state, these were seen but by a few; wherefore he is thought by some, to pray here for the manifestation of this glory; but this glory was essential to him, was his natural right, and not to be prayed for, and which he then had as much as ever, and of which there could be no suspension: but this designs the glory of him as Godman, and Mediator; he was not only predestinated to be a Mediator, but was really set up as such from everlasting, and had a mediatorial fulness of grace put into his hands, and had the honour and glory of that office given unto him by the other two persons; and now that he might appear to be what he was, to be made, that is, made manifest that he was both Lord and Christ, he here prays; which was to be done, upon his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God, by the pouring down of the Holy Ghost. Solid Joys. This figure is frequently described as the "Whore of Babylon" in discussions of the end times. Please read John 17:1-5: Jesus prays for Himself . There is not one reference to Exodus 3:14 or Isaiah or any other Old Testament verse where God says “ I am .” "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. Proud member They accepted it and know that I came from you, and they believe you sent me. 3 Already w you are clean x because of the word that I have spoken to you . the glory which I had with thee before the world was; the same phrase with (Mlwel) , or (Mlweh Mdwq) , used by the Jews F8. John 17:5 is often used to prove the preincarnate existence of Jesus as the second person of the trinity. James White (This information sheet is divided into two sections – the first explores the meaning of John 1:1, and the second addresses the more technical subject of the correct translation of the verse. John 17:5 SUM PIC XRF ... --This clause admits of but one meaning--viz., that Jesus claimed for Himself the possession of the divine glory in His pre-existent state before the world was; and that He claimed this in personality distinct from, but in essence one with God. Interactive Bible study with John Piper. Daily devotional with John Piper The Son of God, by becoming incarnate, is represented as "humbling himself" (Greek: he "emptied himself"), Philippians 2:8. This agrees with John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word [Christ], and the Word was with [along side of] God, and the Word was God.". For example, in the NASB, Reference Edition, Foundation Press, 1975, the Trinitarian New Testament editors used John 1:1; 17:5, 24 for all the cross-references for John 8:58. 2 t Every branch in me that does not bear fruit u he takes away , and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes , v that it may bear more fruit . 6 “I have revealed you # 17:6 Greek have revealed your name; also in 17:26. to the ones you gave me from this world. If one wants to interpret John 17:5 to mean Jesus existed with the Father before creation then one will also necessarily need to consistently interpret Jesus' words in verse 22 as meaning his future disciples existed along with him when he was saying this prayer. With this pre-existent glory, which He veiled on earth, He asks to be reinvested, the design of the veiling being accomplished—not, however, simply as before, but now in our nature. John 1:1-18 . πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers. John 1:1 – Meaning and Translation. (g) Midrash Tillim in Psal. 1. Please enter your email address associated with your Salem All-Pass account, then click Continue. by Matt Slick "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent," (John 17:3). John 17:5, like all of Jesus’ prayers, must be read in the context of the Incarnation. Jesus Prays to Be Glorified - After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: “Father, the hour has come. “… Father, the hour has come; glorify Thy Son, that the Son may glorify Thee” (John 17:1 b). Compiled & Edited by BST & Crosswalk Staff, California - Do Not Sell My Personal Information. It must be taken into account that Jesus was at once both God and man. with the glory which I had with thee before the world was—when "in the beginning the Word was with God" (Joh 1:1), "the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father" (Joh 1:18). What does Revelation 17:5 mean? They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. With thine own self - In heaven, granting me a participation of the same honor which the Father has. This word also includes the notion of happiness, or everything which could render the condition blessed. Ver. The Jehovah's Witnesses, among others, cite John 17:3 as a proof-text to deny the Trinity and claim that Jesus Christ is not God. This word also includes the notion of happiness, or everything which could render the condition blessed. And now, O Father, glorify you me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world was. of It is poetic prose—prose with the soul of poetry—prose that, like poetry, packs layers of meaning in a word or phrase. Jesus’ petition was not to receive glory independently from the Father, but to be glorified to the praise of the Father. "THE GOSPEL OF JOHN" Father...Glorify Your Son (17:1-5) INTRODUCTION 1. * 1 When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven * and said, “Father, the hour has come. Of course, the speaker here must have existed then, and this is equivalent to saying that he existed from eternity. John is the only Gospel writer to quote Jesus as saying that his followers are no part of the world, or do not belong to the world. We believe that John 17:5 is a great example of a verse that demonstrates the need for clear thinking concerning the doctrine of the Trinity. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. by Cyril of Alexandria) has been seen as a representation of the entire system of "divine truth" revealed to the faithful "that believe on his name" as in John 1:12. To understand John 17:5, we need understand that something may exist in the foreknowledge whilst not yet existing in actuality. Cathol. They reason is that if Jesus were God, then He would not have called the Father, "the only true God." It means before the creation of the world; before there was any world. 1 John 2:1 and the Notes on 14:16) it may well be that here the Evangelist shows Jesus interceding for his disciples as Advocate/Paraclete. Later in his prayer Jesus explains why he was glorified. (Comp. In a previous lesson we stated that the prayer of Jesus in John 17 is "The Greatest Prayer Ever Prayed", noting four reasons... a. THE PROLOGUE TO THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. If one wants to interpret John 17:5 to mean Jesus existed with the Father before creation then one will also necessarily need to consistently interpret Jesus' words in verse 22 as meaning we, his disciples, existed along with him when he was saying this prayer. Thus says the LORD, "Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind And makes flesh his strength, And whose heart turns away from the LORD. With the glory - With the honor. However, like all other scripture, the verse must be interpreted by the immediate context surrounding it. 2 As thou hast given him a power over all flesh, that he should give b eternal life to as many as thou hast c given him.. 3 And this is a life b eternal, that they might c know thee the only true d God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast e sent. However, in context, Jesus has promised “another Paraclete” (14:16) and since the range of meaning for this word includes “advocate” (cf. He had just said that he had glorified God on the earth, he now prays that God would glorify him in heaven. 17:1 After saying this, Jesus raised his eyes to heaven and said: Father, the hour has come: glorify your Son so that your Son may glorify you; 2 so that, just as you have given him power over all humanity, he may give eternal life to all those you have entrusted to him. JOHN 17:6-11 6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. (Comp. EXEGESIS: JOHN 1:1-18. Copyright © 2020, Bible Study Tools. [⇑ See verse text ⇑] This symbolic "great prostitute" seen by John (Revelation 17:1) is identified by the name John saw on her forehead. The Prayer of Jesus. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. With the glory - With the honor. Holy Father: In the Bible, this expression occurs only here and is used as a form of address with reference to Jehovah.It is never used in reference to a human. The Person who prayed the prayer b. l. 3. c. 9. This is the state to which he is now exalted, with the additional honor of having made atonement for sin, and having opened the way to save a race of rebels from eternal death. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self Not with his perfections, these he had, they dwelt bodily in him; or with his nature, in which he was one with him; but as Mediator, with his glorious presence in heaven, by setting him at his right hand, and crowning him with glory and honour. The deity and humanity of Jesus cannot be divided and considered in isolation from each other. The special importance of the thought here is that it is uttered in the words of Christ Himself, and that these words are a prayer to the Father. He now prays that God would raise him up to the dignity and honor which he had before his incarnation. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self. John 17:22. John 1:1; John 1:18, and on the whole passage, Notes on Philippians 2:4-9.) 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